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"People are realizing in larger and larger numbers that the purpose of
all scriptures is to teach us how death was created in human history,
how to get rid of it, and the practical realization of eternal life."
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"The philosophy of immortality believed will produce death. That is,
believed rather than practiced. Belief is past; everlasting life is
an eternal daily consciousness. It is not something you did, but
something you do."
"Eternal life is a mind that is beyond belief and is fed by an
ever-present intuitive, divine connection to the common sense wisdom
of life itself.
Physical immortality as a doctrine can never work. Physical
immortality as a conscious connection to The Tree Of Life is natural.
Maha samadhi as a doctrine is an evil form of deathist mentality.
Physical immortality as a living philosophy is the only cause you
cannot die for. Physical immortality as a belief system could cause
one person to murder another out of fear and false righteousness. You
can never achieve immortality, you can only practice it. You can only
be it and live it."
*taken from Physical Immortality: The Science of Everlasting Life by Leonard Orr
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Tue, July 17, 2007 - 11:33 PMI'll have to re-read, is quite chewy...is he saying it is all in the mind, yet not a belief, but an active living in the knowing of immortality?
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Sun, August 12, 2007 - 12:17 AMhmmmm....
"Eternal life is a mind that is beyond belief and is fed by an
ever-present intuitive, divine connection to the common sense wisdom of life itself. "
isn't this a belief?
can we transcend our belief systems by believing they are transcendable?
limiting beliefs can be transcended when replaced with more empowering beliefs, but i find it necessary to identify them first, and then replaced them with 'better' beliefs identified/found/created thru my actions and experience, mine or someone else's.
our physical life is limited by our beliefs, based on our experiences of death.
eastern philosophies coupled with western science and medicine has demonstrated to me that holistically healthier lifestyles result in the potential for longer life spans. scientist and drs. today, believe that there are humans alive that will easily reach 150 years of healthy life.
this belief resonates highly with my experience of myself, my body, my youth and energy as i invest in myself with holistically better lifestyle choices; better quality food, air, water, more exercise, yoga, and very importantly stress management. i find that replacing negative stress with positive stress to be the source of my personal fountain of youth. by this i mean investing my time and energy in learning as many new things as possible, rather than worrying about where i'm at, or falling into repeated behavior cycles that 'stress me out'.
i believe that i will make it to a very healthy and active 160 year of age. that said, i wish to believe that i can live longer, maybe 250 years and it may be possible. however as a molecular biologist, i also know and believe that death is very important process of life. apoptosis, "programmed cell death" is a fascinated field of research that has demonstrated that all of our cells will one day die, because they have a both a certain physical life span, due to the negative stresses of our environment ( oxidation, uv light, etc), and a built in mechanism that limits the number of times a given cell can reproduce, the latter being a built in cancer controlling mechanism.
so, it's clear to me this physical body will one day die and i'm fine with that, i just intend to get the most milage out of it as possible and i will continue to do that by doing what it was specifically designed to do; have as many new experiences as possible -
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Fri, November 9, 2007 - 4:39 PMAha...I see. What you say makes sense. Is that really so about the cells being programmed to only reproduce a certain number of times? How do we know this for sure, especially if ones mind body equaion were in a more supportive balance? I ask this since what pone believes can program the cells, yes?
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Sat, November 10, 2007 - 4:39 AM
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Sat, November 10, 2007 - 8:41 AMyes, it is really so about the cells being programmed to only reproduce a certain number of times?
many cells have an actual physical mechanism, comprised of specific genes and proteins that limits the number of times they can divide/reproduce.
for example: when we first are developing our hands and feet grow as protrusions and the cells between our digits die to form our fingers and toes, in some cases and in some animals the bone cells die and the skin cells are programmed to remain and that creates webbed feet, hands flippers, etc. this is called apoptosis.. i find if fascinating don't you?
apart from this:
all cells have a built in mutation rate for DNA ( i think it's like 1:trillion - i don't remember the number but it's very very small) that will result in lethal mutations given enough divisions. this is absolutely necessary for evolution. if cells preserved their integrity 100% they would never change and.. 'change is the only constant' - to quote Heraclitus
no mutation means no variation, means no chance for a species to adapt to changes in it's environment ,means little chance of life.. means death
mutation means change means death to individuals (and on a greater scale to specific species), means, birth to new life, new species, means.....immortality
life as we know it has been continuously alive for about 3 billion years.. consider that a greater form of immortality, that we are all a part of.
my skin cells will die and be replaced by other skin cells in order to maintain me alive as organism. i will die and before, (hopefully one day.. still looking for the right woman :) will reproduce propagating life...
we are only carriers of life, bearers, wardens, a small part, cells of LIFE in the universe.
it's perfect the way that it is :)
live long and reproduce.. and most definately enjoy doing both and hopefully enjoy the experience of death ;) -
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Tue, December 18, 2007 - 7:50 PMHmmm... a built in number.....I rebell! How can they even count a trillion for goodness sakes!? I am imagining a counting machine saying, 99 billion.....a billion billion....etc.
I suppose I just don't want to accept that there is a pre-destined math connected to decay. I could argue myself out of that one too, by saying why not? Number is after-all something revealed through form and is a language but then up pops a Dylan Thomas drunken fist raging against the dying of the light while Goethe says "more light" and visions of shamans shaking rainsticks remind me that darkness and light are both parts of life though we've been told darkness is death and light is life.....on and on....the inner dialogue continues...
On the other hand, I can appreciate and enjoy very much the perspective of the great all seeing eye as in sharing immortality via being part of existence is a perspective one can take that is comforting.....
I like to think of everything in terms of it's being derived from star dust.
Molybdenum is an element common to stardust and essential to our nutrition. You can find it in good quality multi-vitamin and mineral supplements. It is also one of the basic componants of DNA and stardust!
I love this.....we really are of the stars and so....
being composed of the stardust (just what is stardust?), we are from the stars, though considered an exotic idea in the mainstream is in fact the main stream of life as we know it....
and as we don't know it.
And those atoms of stars and where they have been before....is probably what makes us so somehow interconnected to those cellestial spheres and I suspect somehow influenced by as well as influencing of the dance and kiss of heavenly bodies... -
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Wed, December 19, 2007 - 1:21 AMso far as we can know or imagine we are composed of what we can know or imagine...
entropic stellar systems...?
graves ranted on about the white goddess as the poetic muse and how she was both death and the eternal maiden...
kind of like seasonal renewal etc...
my own personal "awakening" at hitting middleaged decay was a sudden realisation that I had allowed my youth to be wasted by my personal despair and the ambient toxic nihilism...
the basic idea was that one should live "as if" one would live forever rather than opting for the expedient vulgarities etc...
that kind of gives a poignant twist to the "eternal life" sacrificial rites such as the crucifixion and how media tends to celebrate the mundane destructiveness etc... hahaha
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Wed, December 19, 2007 - 11:45 AMYep...we are all linked this way...metalinks to the alamighty...
But don't you even dare sniffing StarDust...!!!
We are stardust and stardust we shall be again...
Our human perspective is a conduct of the beauty and love that lies in the heart of the holy maker.
The Fury of GOD is love.
Big Bang ejaculation of stardust powder.
I often halucinate the virgin mary being inseminate by the Angel Gabriel who blows some king of mystical powder thru her nose...and without her noticing it..or it's effect...
but beliving she got pregnant in a very peculiar way.
HAppy Christmass to all of you out there...Keep up looking the stars.
Peace and be nice as nice as can be....Twinkle to all !
Rich -
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Wed, December 19, 2007 - 11:46 AMoops
life that goes just too fast.
Corrections
«some kind of mystical powder thru her nose...»
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Sun, December 30, 2007 - 12:22 AMThat is a WILD vision Rich!
:)) -
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Sun, December 30, 2007 - 6:06 AMI have started reading on Leonard Orr but haven't started the exercises yet.
He claims to have spoken to eight immortels, all on the Indian subcontinent.
But has anyone seen a picture of him? He should be an old guy by now. I can't seem to find one. Let's see how he is pulling that one off. -
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Mon, December 31, 2007 - 1:33 AMExcellent video of Leonard Orr on utube...he looks about 65...(don't know his age though) : www.youtube.com/watch
In this video...he talks about the Freudian idea of the unconscious death urge as well as what immortality comes from. He says that the belief in death creates it....something I've always felt, but haven't found much affirmation of...
Very interesting. I do agree that belief systems and conditioning of expectation can create death....as well as life.
He has healed his own death urge. Talks about the cause and effect aspect....
Now I want to do the rebirthing breathing exercises! Which book are you reading?
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Mon, December 31, 2007 - 9:25 AMI will check this Vid of Leonard Orr. On the Mighty Tube of Web.
May slow speed here in the country just won't allow any further prosect on this so-called immortal character.
I'm found of the idea that thru conditionning the soul...One can set's his own deathwish...and die sooner or later, either by self inflicted sickness or suicide. These are trappings that exist in the realm of life...
But it does,nt tell us anything about Immortality, I doubt any one with the best of intentions would become Immortal by doing a reverse psychology on this one.
The passage between death and life is rather Parapsychological & metaphysical than just a mere tought conditionnong a recipee of immortal LIFE.
I posted this idea that The presence of Strontium 90 on our earht could explain more about the mechanichs behind true immortality...ounce again...it does imply a reverse pattern scheme to prevail into somekinda of conclusion on the matter.
But As I read here these lines...
This image of a Child, 3 years old living in Irak...That receives a bomb on the head while he was running to catch the arms of his Dady...and then dies...
Do you really think...this child was conditionning himself for this cruel advent ?
Breathing is a technique that allows many sustaining factors that can delay the time of death.
I will Check this guy out...But somehow...
I think if someone knows about True Immortality for now...It may very well be Christ.
I hope to have time to study more the affects of strontium90 on the Bones...
I think There may be a connection...with the process of our bones that can help us learn about Immortality.
Also...If I can reassure some of you.
I do believe the Soul is immortal...and will be judge to see if it fufills the conditions for such a delicacy in the heaven of future times
Peace to all of you and Happy New Year
Rich -
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Sat, January 5, 2008 - 2:34 AMHi Rich,
yeah....I too feel that the soul aka consciousness is immortal....I do find the discussion of immortality in all aspects interesting though and since there is such a taboo about the idea of physical immortality, I think it important to feel free to talk about it too. We are told that everyone dies and that physical death is inevitable and even mocked for suggesting that it could be otherwise. I don't know why, but I've never fully believed that it was 100% true somehow....maybe I'm in denial, or maybe it is my immortal soul feeling this way, however, I don't think we should suppress what we feel on such subjects but exchange on them no matter how foolish other people may find or think them to be. It is at least possible to live to be 120 and 150 in physical terms...and to be in tact. Of course, fresh air is helpful and I do agree that not holding onto painful thoughts and feelings is important too.
Would be interested to hear your bones theory.
Consciousness is key....and vibrational frequency...
I feel that sound vibrations of a certain frequency and energy are capable of sustaining life indefinately....
Yes, love is within this....a love that is beyond the kind of emotional one we normally attribute the word love to.....
Bless.....
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Sat, January 5, 2008 - 2:43 AMP.S. This idea was not in any way saying that all death is self created...of course the child in Iraq killed by a bomb did not create his death....this is not that kind of idea. Rather, that degenerative diseases etc. could be caused by ones belief, fears, etc. and the unconditional acceptance of death being inevitable. It is interesting to question and wonder whether this degeneration would occurr if there were not a belief and acceptance of death.
There is some risk one takes in choosing not to believe in physical death, for if (or when if you prefer) it happens one has not accepted it's inevitability, there could perhaps be some struggle in accepting it, more so than would be otherwise. Relinquishing life is a big one. ON a philosophical and metaphysical plain, one can make it all sound so easy, but dying is rarely easy. I have heard of some peaceful sounding deaths and Yogananda's sounds especially wonderful or ideal.... If you are going to die, it is good to be ready and to not be afraid but hopefully calm and surrendered.
Surrendered. Ay, there's the rub.To die or not to die to what we know. To be or not to be may not be a polar equation. Maybe being always is, even in the absence of being. There is something in Buddhism to that effect. I'll try to find it and get back to you with it.
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Wed, January 2, 2008 - 6:36 PMThanks for the link. It is most interesting and I also have an intuitive feeling that this can be done or more a knowing on a basic level.
I am presently reading "Breaking the Death Habit subtitled The Science of Everlasting Life" from Orr along with other authors.
I was urged a lot about rebirthing but did not realised that it had some impact on the process.
There was also something on twenty connected breaths, which he speaks about in his book; Here is the link: www.youtube.com/watch
I feel that when stessed, I do not breath very well. -
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Wed, January 2, 2008 - 6:43 PMThe basic trick, according to Orr, is to keep ahead of the degenerative factors on all levels. He advocates a lot of cleansing since everything is thought or rather thought-forms. I could do well on that front - i don't get stuck too healivy on stuff providing it is a real approach.
however, there is always residual emotions stuck in crevaces.
One reason that I have posted a pic - besides finally getting a webcam - is to follow the progression if there is one since the proff of the pudding is in the eating.
I do not want to live on "terra firma" forever but the aquisition of a light body that can look ordinary - is very tantalising. -
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Wed, January 2, 2008 - 7:06 PMGood sales pitch! Even Orr says that this is one "religion" that you must prove yourself at since being an immortalist, you have never arrived. He is then inviting everyone to his 300th birthday,the minimum for immortals, tongue in cheeck.
The other writers are Peter Kelder' Ancient Secrets of the Fountain of Youth - a series of yoga-like transmuting exercises and Chris Griscom's The Ageless Body that takes some of Kelder's exercises and adds her own. I like her a lot and have read her other material.
Oh, and I did watch a roomate die from the same disease his father had and really wondered very hard about the connection. it is as if he was doing this out of loyalty.
Orr may have a point.
I think I will now stop posting and conserve energy! -
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Sat, January 5, 2008 - 2:27 AMThanks for all the interesting ithoughts and info...am going to look into all and get back soon with thoughts.
I do agree about cleansing....
and the light body idea is indeed tantalizing...
I have this idea that originally humans were not solid but partially amorphous and immortal and that as consciousness solidified, or rather became attached to identity through some sort of catalyst (not sure what caused this progression) that bodies became more and more complex....and so did all the nooks and crannies where things can get stuck! Ha! -
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Thu, May 15, 2008 - 7:12 AMOrr is aging nicely :|||:: -
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Re: Leonard Orr on Physical Immortality
Thu, June 5, 2008 - 11:08 AMEternity has nothing to do with time whatsoever.
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